“And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” John 17:3
Over the past week there were a couple of letters to the editor that bothered me. They were ostensibly about a number of different issues, but all managed in one way or another to work back into the claim that the infanticide of abortion should trump all other concerns.
I know that this is an emotional issue for a lot of people. I’ve already posted some thoughts on why this is a disingenuous argument by both liberals and conservatives. The whole discussion has become a litmus test for both ends of the political spectrum. So it suites both sides to continue the polemics rather than seek the common ground of reducing the need for abortions. These diatribes energize the base and enhance fund raising.
In fact, I was reading a blog entry on a conservative site where the term “fertilized egg” is no longer appropriate to describe the moment of conception. The new term is “developing human baby”.
Now maybe this is the result of someone who skipped health class for religious purposes, but it does reveal how silly this whole “life begins at conception” argument really is. I don’t mean to say that it isn’t appealing as a concept. The whole reproductive process is miraculous. It just that it doesn’t work in a way that supports the argument that these blastocysts can be treated legally as people.
If we were to endow “developing human babies” with the same rights as newborns, virtually every sexually active woman would be a murder. That’s because, between menstrual cycles and miscarriage, 33% of all fertilized eggs fail to produce a term pregnancy. In fact the whole system is setup to inhibit fertilization. That’s why invitro methods are so challenging. Contrary to popular myths regarding stem cell research, only 25% of invitro fertilizations result in viable implantation candidates.
Even when a pregnancy occurs normally, roughly 15% fail. About 20% are terminated through legal abortions, and the remaining 65% result in live births. Another interesting statistic is that about 10% of the women in the US capable of having children are currently pregnant.
So here’s a little thought exercise for those who feel that life starts at conception and as a result abortion is a terrible crime against humanity. It starts with an assumption that will appeal to many pro-life advocates. Let’s assume that the only women who are sexually active are those who are pregnant. It’s a fair comparison in any case because these are the only women faced with the choice of terminating their pregnancy. If we also assume 66% fertilization success rate, then women’s bodies kill almost two times as many “developing human babies” as abortion clinics. With a more realistic sexual activity rate of 70% the ratio is 14 times those terminated by abortion clinics.
I could use one of those, if-God-thought-life-began-at-conception-He-would-have-designed-a-better-system arguments, but I think you get the point.
What is truly curious about all of this is that so many good people of faith are just fixated with the wrong end of the spectrum. It isn’t about when life really began because that was when God had the idea that became you or me. No one can honestly say when that was and it is divisive and presumptuous to try. Jesus clearly thought that there was a much more important message to deliver. The big promise He proved was that death has no power over life. His message of salvation to the world is that every idea is unique and precious in the Creator’s mind and that idea, once created, has no end.
Hey, that’s a great post.
I’ve always thought that the abortion issue was kind of like civil rights. You had people like MLK Jr. who basically wanted to work within the system. And you had people like Malcolm X who wanted to bring the system down. They both wanted equality, but just through a different method.
BTW, apologies for the blatant generalization.
But I am just maddened by the idea that a pro-lifer has to support a conservative or Republican agenda. I just don’t believe that abortion will ever end by a political decision.
So, wouldn’t it be better to set the legal arguments aside and promote a world that supports kids, moms, families and values? And wouldn’t that allow a pro-lifer to support the Democrat Party?
And I am just as maddened by the Democrats who believe that Roe must be preserved at all costs. Wouldn’t it be better to fight it out in the legislatures? And wouldn’t it be interesting to see if the Republicans would actually ban abortion if given the chance. We might just have had 30+ years of bluff.
Personally, I think that Roe just gives Republicans cover.
Mike,
Thanks for the comments.
I agree with you.
I’ve always felt that conservative Christians have allowed themselves to be politically manipulated by the two issues of abortion and gay marriage. What do either of those issues really have to do with the two great commandments, “Love God” and “Love your neighbor as yourself”? Fortunately there are people in that movement like Rick Warren who are asking exactly the same questions.
I’ve also felt that abortion has been just as effective for liberal politicians who raise the specter of laws restricting the reproductive rights of women.
If all of the energy of both sides over the past thirty odd years had been focused on reducing unwanted pregnancies through education and contraception, the vast majority of abortions today would be medically mandated.
Even without that focus, abortions continue to trend downward because kids are better educated and have easier access to birth control. So perhaps in another thirty years, we’ll get to a point where it is no longer a relevant political issue.
Jeff
I too am sick and tired of this illogical, unreasonable, and actually ludicrous abortion stranglehold that has gripped the Republican fold. Because of this one overall issue, to include stem cell research, the rest of America is stuck with an absolutely crooked administration in power for a second term. Never mind we have an endless list of deaths in an unwarranted war, soldiers with injuries from that same war neglected of proper medical care, children suffering the effects of losing a soldier parent, children of the growing homeless, deaths and suffering that may have benefited from stem cell research, etc., all to save every last “essence” of human life. It’s as if to say it’s much more noble to save the “thought” of life than save the existing.
This is one for George Carlin to expound on. He is sooo efficient at pointing out the absurdities and lopsided interests of human nature, which the issue of abortion is, compared to a world that includes starvation, disease, ethnic cleansing, terrorism, torture, and suffering in all its forms.
Last but not least, these very same self lauding defenders of the unborn have yet to grasp the idea of environmentalism. We’ve discussed this disconnect before. If we don’t protect and nurture the world that in turn nurtures the living and halt the greed machine of corporate America that promulgates the environment’s demise then there is not much sense worrying about the unborn is there?
I don’t know how we came this far, this fast to become so distinctly the party of the unborn vs. the party of the environment when these are not political issues at all. Who is putting the D and R labels on everything? I am indignant that as a Democrat I am viewed somehow as having lesser understanding of the bible or God’s way than my Republican counterpart on many issues. Who awarded them the higher moral ground? We need to dismantle the spin doctors and get back to being a united country. Defining political designations from the pulpit is certainly not in line with loving thy neighbor as thyself no matter who they are or casting the first stone before we examine our own ethics about a wide range of things.
Ria,
Thanks again for your comments.
Unfortunately a lot of politics in this country is about gaining and retaining power, and not about what is good for the country or its people.
The reason why we have come so far in such a short time is because of “Karl Rove” style politics. Strategies which fragment and radicalize voters have successfully created conservative coalitions capable of generating both a thin national majority and a lot of money.
Until recently the democrats responded with similar tactics of demonization and there were precious few left in the middle to broker compromise.
The current administration’s hubris and ineptitude both abroad and at home finally woke enough votes up to how they had been manipulated by a narrow domestic agenda. In the last election, the voters rejected divisive politics and moved strongly to the center. That’s where democracy can work, and we’re starting to see Congress exert the sort of oversight that has been lacking for the past six years.
I don’t think that it is the end of “family values” as a powerful political tool. But I do think that the pro-life/anti-gay coalition has lost the power to elect a president because the president it did elect governed so poorly.
Jeff
The unveiling of Haggard helped that along a bit too, LOL.
Ria,
You’re right.
Though you have to have compassion for even the hypocritical.
I’m sure that eventually we will have enough scientific proof to support the claim that sexual preference is a genetic pre-disposition rather than a choice. The fact that there has been a fairly constant population of gay folks in virtually every society in recorded history regardless of the level of support or repression, strongly suggests that it has little or nothing to do with upbringing.
The moral discussion should move off of homosexuality and onto things like hedonism and promiscuity. The problem there is that this is likely to ensnare even more pastors than those that are still fearfully hiding in the closet.
Jeff
Ria
Doesnt Ted Haggard deserve compassion? Forgiveness?
I have to say though ,,,,,For me,,,,The baby has to have a beating heart, to be,,,,,,a baby..Conception? thats just nuts
As for Gay, who cares, they are our Brothers and Sisiters, Who is without sin?
Never met, Not ever, a person without sin.
AND sin, is sin, is sin
Rick,
You continue to surprise me.
I’m right there with you.
The whole message of loving your neighbor as yourself is understanding that that our shared heritage of being God’s children is inviolate. Our shortcomings can’t change the basic reality of our being. God always sees us for who we are, His perfect creation. Realizing that we are not bound by past mistakes is part of the message Jesus brought to earth. His healing work on earth rebuked the old testament thought that adversity was the evidence of sin. He proved that when you throw off that concept, you can be healed.
Jeff
Jeff
IF I WAS KING OF THE WORLD (satan)
Just Kidding
Imagine I all people had to have there sins tattooed on there arms, and before they cast that first stone they had to read there own sins. Then Forgiveness would be more forthcoming , EXCEPT for the liars.
I believe in Judging people, I know the Scripture used on this is taken out of context, by people afraid tobe judged.
Imagine before you judge someone, you cover yourself with the manure you made yourself, Then In Love and Humility you would say to that person………Brother, Sister let me give you a hand
Ezekiel 3:18-22
If we can see others looking through our own sin then we can help them up, dust them off, and continue along the road, And then say Brother, let me show you where I have found bread.
Rick, Jeff & Ria,
You all make very valid arguments; however, in the end, only God will decide when a fertilized egg or developing human – whatever you prefer to call a potential human, has a soul. I don’t know the answer and after listening to this debate for over 30 years, I’m convinced that nobody but God knows the answer.
Regarding gays – I’m not very bible literate, so I can’t quote or argue passages; however, I know that this too is open to interpretation. God loves us all and I can’t believe that he excludes gays because they have a biological flaw that He created. We’re told that if murderers ask for forgiveness, they are forgiven. Gays, on the other hand don’t understand why they have to ask for forgiveness and I’m with them on that. It’s all too complex for my limited understanding of the bible.
Mary,
Thanks for your lovely observations.
I am right there with you.
Life begins at God’s conception of the IDEA that becomes the person we see. We really don’t know when that is.
God’s ideas reflect Him and are made in His image and likeness. So it is hard to imagine how He would make any one inferior in any spiritual way to any other.
Jeff
Jeremias 1, 5
Before I formed thee in the bowels of thy mother, I knew thee: and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and made thee a prophet unto the nations.
So God only know prophets before their conception, and all others are fair game for the abortionists’ blender?
Erich,
Not at all.
I believe that we are all God’s ideas. No one but God can say when that idea started. The fact that it was true for Jesus (as this passage foretold), means that it is true for all of us.
What it also means is that once created, an idea can’t be forgotten, and so continues forever. So in the larger context of eternity, this focus on which moment an idea that lasts forever happens to inhabit a body, seems obsessive.
I agree that we should focus our efforts on reducing the need (or perhaps demand is a better word) for abortion. In my experience, no woman wants an abortion and would gladly prefer to control their ability to conceive. In the absence of knowledge and resources, people don’t always make the best decisions. The problem is that as long as abortion remains a question of right and wrong, it will remain a political wedge issue. Nothing will be accomplished because both sides have a vested interest in perpetuating the conflict rather than solving the problem.
Before this, the last great emotional discussion of this magnitude in this country was prohibition. The anti-alcohol movement eventually succeeded in getting alcohol banned. It did not result in the return to righteousness. family values, and clean living that its supporters hoped. Nor did it eliminate alcoholism. Instead it created the scourge of organized crime. The amendment was repealed, but organized crime stayed.
In a similar way, banning abortions won’t prevent unwanted pregnancies or force people to live more spiritual lives. It will simply make abortion more dangerous and expensive and likely have a similar unintended societal consequence by increasing the population of kids whose parents can’t or won’t raise them.
Jeff
I didn’t realize our eternal souls have been reduced to, and equated with, an “idea”.
Before conception our souls are clean, pure, but once it inhabits our mortal bodies it becomes unpure because of the sin of Adam in Eden. To relegate that eternal soul to perpetual purgatory because it was an unwanted/unintended/not-convenient-at-the-time “idea” to engage in procreative activities is the epitome of arrogance and malice. Our civilization is inextricably woven with the “idea” that we are made in God’s image and therefore are to be treated as such – “human rights” do not exist outside of that tenet, hence our ancient laws against treating our fellow men as mere animals.
There has never been a time in Adamaic history when our divine prohibitions have stopped the absent-minded, the ignorant or the criminally-inclined from engaging is those activities. As your example of the temperance movement shows (and there are myriad others to further clarify the “idea”) rules get broken, whether man-made or divine. Whether the punishment is a night in the pokey or eternity without God we always earn a debt to be paid for breaking the rules.
“In a similar way, banning abortions won’t prevent unwanted pregnancies or force people to live more spiritual lives.” Ah. “The Forbidden Fruit.” Just as Eve succumbed to the serpent’s temptations to do what she was told not to do, so do we banished children of Eve find forbidden things highly attractive. Getting caught with one’s hand in the proverbial cookie jar might warrant a slap on the wrist to encourage one to not eat cookies before dinner (or to not get caught next time) but it doesn’t mean one is going to rot in hell for the transgression. Conversely, for the 6,000 years that abortion was illegal and unethical and a crime against our God it didn’t prevent some enterprising people from engaging in that business, but that business was moved underground – out of the sight of man but not outside the realm of God. If anyone thinks the first abortion in the world occurred after the vile Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling he is an ignoramous par excellence… In those same 6.000 years God-only knows how many of those women who did, or attempted to, abort their made-in-God’s-image “ideas” didn’t live to tell about it, damning themselves to hell and their unborn children to eternal purgatory. I weep for the innocent victims of such atrocities but I sleep as well at night knowing those I-don’t-want-to-be-a-mother-right-nows will rot in hell alongside all other unrepentant sinners and scheming politicians of several stripes for their actions. That is called justice – our just desserts.
We are endowed by our Creator with free will, but nowhere in God’s Law are we allowed to flaunt sin – the repercussions of doing so is damnation for ourselves and for others who may seek to imitate us as “Ideas have consequences.”
Erich,
We all struggle when we attempt to define the infinite.
You are comfortable with the word soul because it is consistent the Catholic theology which appears to be the foundation for your thoughts.
I’m comfortable with the word idea because it is the closest analog to what little we know about our spiritual life. All we know for sure is that we were born and that most all of us die. What we sense beyond that is that we had a life before we were born and that life doesn’t end when we die. In that context, I use the word idea with just as much reverence as you use soul.
As far as the rest of your post, it’s pretty much straight up Roman Catholic belief. I’m glad that is working for you.
I’m not going to argue with you about it or try to convince you that my understanding is any more valuable than what the Catholic Church preaches. I just put my thoughts out there to hopefully encourage a respectful conversation.
My sense of our relationship with God comes from that incredible summary in the third chapter of John.
“Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”
That same chapter of John also talks about sin.
“Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.”
So here’s what these passages say to me.
God created me as his son and gave me the choice to accept or deny that sonship. What that sonship means is that I am a pure spirit just as God is a pure spirit. I am that pure spirit today, even though nobody on this earth today including me fully understands what that means. I’m not flawed. I don’t need to be fixed. I have the the seed of perfection in me and just have to accept it in order to experience it. If I deny it I will suffer, but the seed remains.
My responsibility while here on earth is to follow God’s commandments as best I can and love my fellow humans as completely as I am able. If I have any doubts about whether or not this is true, I only have to look the fact that God sent Jesus to give me an example of what I should be doing, prove that death has no power over the spirit, and demonstrate that anyone can claim this sonship regardless of their past mistakes by accepting the Christ and embracing God.
Clearly big chunks of this are well outside Catholic doctrine and call some parts of it into question. Just because I don’t agree with all that you believe in doesn’t mean that I don’t respect your beliefs.
All of us will find out soon enough when we have the opportunity to meet our maker.
In the meantime, I would submit that we should look to that large elements of what we have in common in our understanding of God and his Christ and figure out how to share that message with the world rather than obsess on our differences (soul versus idea) and fail to fulfill our mission of loving our brother as ourselves.
Jeff
Sir: with the obsessing seemingly only focused on the word “love” all I get from the replies above is that as long as we tell the unrepentant murderer, et al., among us “I’m Doing This Because I Love You” before the knife switch to his electric chair is thrown that we’re alright with St. John and God? Whew. I can live with that.
p.s. You pegged me on the Catholicism but please add “sedevacantist” to qualify it (for accuracy, if not another topic for discussion.)
Erich,
I wasn’t familiar with the sedevacantism, but it was interesting to read about.
I’m assuming the rest of the response was sarcastic.
I can’t apologize for the focus on love. Just happens to be what makes sense to me.
As far as capital punishment is concerned, you can probably guess that you would not be able to get me to pull the switch. Further, if I ever had an opportunity to vote on it, I would vote no.
I can take some comfort that most modern industrial societies without nearly the same claim to self-righteous Christianity, have determined that capital punishment is an ineffective, inaccurate, and barbaric response to crime. I trust that this country will eventually follow the lead of our European and Asian peers.
Jeff