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	<title>Comments on: My People a Joy</title>
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	<link>http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/2008/07/my-people-a-joy/</link>
	<description>Politics from a progressive Christian perspective</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff Beamsley</title>
		<link>http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/2008/07/my-people-a-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-3557</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Beamsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/?p=112#comment-3557</guid>
		<description>You can claim to include or exclude whomever you would like.  The bottom line is that you can't expect to alter the beliefs of those who self-identify as Roman Catholics, for example, just because you don't feel that they accept the full scope of teachings which you accept.  

I understand that you feel it is inappropriate for some to claim to be something that you feel they aren't.  

That doesn't change the fact that this survey suggests that a very large number of people seem to feel comfortable claiming affiliation with a religious group even though they don't share all of the tenents of that group.

So, at the end of the day, you can say that this means that there are a lot of hypocrites in this country.  Or I can say that there are a surprising number of people who are willing to honestly admit that they don't feel comfortable with everything their church teaches. 

Just depends on how you look at it.

Based on previous posts, your views on the current pope are pretty clear.  There are certainly some in the Catholic church that would say, as a result of those views, that you are the heritic, but that's not for me to say.  

I can only observe that, as with many other things, "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can claim to include or exclude whomever you would like.  The bottom line is that you can&#8217;t expect to alter the beliefs of those who self-identify as Roman Catholics, for example, just because you don&#8217;t feel that they accept the full scope of teachings which you accept.  </p>
<p>I understand that you feel it is inappropriate for some to claim to be something that you feel they aren&#8217;t.  </p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t change the fact that this survey suggests that a very large number of people seem to feel comfortable claiming affiliation with a religious group even though they don&#8217;t share all of the tenents of that group.</p>
<p>So, at the end of the day, you can say that this means that there are a lot of hypocrites in this country.  Or I can say that there are a surprising number of people who are willing to honestly admit that they don&#8217;t feel comfortable with everything their church teaches. </p>
<p>Just depends on how you look at it.</p>
<p>Based on previous posts, your views on the current pope are pretty clear.  There are certainly some in the Catholic church that would say, as a result of those views, that you are the heritic, but that&#8217;s not for me to say.  </p>
<p>I can only observe that, as with many other things, &#8220;beauty&#8221; is in the eye of the beholder.</p>
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		<title>By: Erich</title>
		<link>http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/2008/07/my-people-a-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-3424</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/?p=112#comment-3424</guid>
		<description>That's just the point, Jeff.  If one doesn't agree with/believe all the tenets of whichever religion or sect one cannot claim to belong to that particular group.  I fully understand that I don't KNOW which path is the right one, and which are definitely wrong, but I do have my beliefs which happen to correspond to which christian "sect" has the better chance of being at least more correct than the others - but that is a belief, and I don't vary from what the Church of old teaches thereby I can actually claim to be a Roman Catholic.  Those who say "yeah, but..." (however large a portion of the populace they be) can't.  And the little quip about Herr Ratzinger wasn't an aside...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s just the point, Jeff.  If one doesn&#8217;t agree with/believe all the tenets of whichever religion or sect one cannot claim to belong to that particular group.  I fully understand that I don&#8217;t KNOW which path is the right one, and which are definitely wrong, but I do have my beliefs which happen to correspond to which christian &#8220;sect&#8221; has the better chance of being at least more correct than the others - but that is a belief, and I don&#8217;t vary from what the Church of old teaches thereby I can actually claim to be a Roman Catholic.  Those who say &#8220;yeah, but&#8230;&#8221; (however large a portion of the populace they be) can&#8217;t.  And the little quip about Herr Ratzinger wasn&#8217;t an aside&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Beamsley</title>
		<link>http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/2008/07/my-people-a-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-3421</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Beamsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 13:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/?p=112#comment-3421</guid>
		<description>Erich,

I understand your point of view.  

The survey suggests that the majority of Americans simply don't share it.

I also understand the foundation of your view because I was raised in the Cathholic church.  I just don't happen to agree with it.

Since there isn't any simple way to prove who is right in this particular case, we'll just have to huddle up after we pass on to compare notes.  

Jeff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Erich,</p>
<p>I understand your point of view.  </p>
<p>The survey suggests that the majority of Americans simply don&#8217;t share it.</p>
<p>I also understand the foundation of your view because I was raised in the Cathholic church.  I just don&#8217;t happen to agree with it.</p>
<p>Since there isn&#8217;t any simple way to prove who is right in this particular case, we&#8217;ll just have to huddle up after we pass on to compare notes.  </p>
<p>Jeff</p>
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		<title>By: Erich</title>
		<link>http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/2008/07/my-people-a-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-3414</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/?p=112#comment-3414</guid>
		<description>Oy.  But how are these "thoughtful, spiritual, God-fearing people" going to obtain life-everlasting with a little love here and there?  I'm not that privy to what all the "christian" sects have been promulgating of late but the Catholic Church of antiquity teaches, nay INSISTS, theres a lot more to be done than spreading a little hippie-love...  One can call oneself a _______ BUT! and be anything but what one claims.  A "Catholic" who rejects that Catholicism is the only path to Heaven (including Herr Ratzinger) is no catholic, but a heretic in the eyes of Holy Mother Church.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oy.  But how are these &#8220;thoughtful, spiritual, God-fearing people&#8221; going to obtain life-everlasting with a little love here and there?  I&#8217;m not that privy to what all the &#8220;christian&#8221; sects have been promulgating of late but the Catholic Church of antiquity teaches, nay INSISTS, theres a lot more to be done than spreading a little hippie-love&#8230;  One can call oneself a _______ BUT! and be anything but what one claims.  A &#8220;Catholic&#8221; who rejects that Catholicism is the only path to Heaven (including Herr Ratzinger) is no catholic, but a heretic in the eyes of Holy Mother Church.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Beamsley</title>
		<link>http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/2008/07/my-people-a-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-3373</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Beamsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 02:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/?p=112#comment-3373</guid>
		<description>Keith,

You may not like the process or the conclusions, but the Pew Forum has been at this for years.  They are widely respected for their research and this appears to be another solid professional piece.

I'm familiar with George Barna, but I don't think he or his firm was involved in this project.  Princeton Survey Research Associates International did the work.

People are going to call themselves whatever they want to call themselves.  That's the whole point.  Many thoughtful spiritual God fearing people in this country reject dogmatism and embrace the two great commandments, "Love God" and "Love your neighbor as yourself".  

I happen to share your belief that all men have to come to God through Christ, but I also believe that all people will come to that conclusion on their own.  God doesn't need my help and would rather I spend my time working on my own salvation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith,</p>
<p>You may not like the process or the conclusions, but the Pew Forum has been at this for years.  They are widely respected for their research and this appears to be another solid professional piece.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m familiar with George Barna, but I don&#8217;t think he or his firm was involved in this project.  Princeton Survey Research Associates International did the work.</p>
<p>People are going to call themselves whatever they want to call themselves.  That&#8217;s the whole point.  Many thoughtful spiritual God fearing people in this country reject dogmatism and embrace the two great commandments, &#8220;Love God&#8221; and &#8220;Love your neighbor as yourself&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I happen to share your belief that all men have to come to God through Christ, but I also believe that all people will come to that conclusion on their own.  God doesn&#8217;t need my help and would rather I spend my time working on my own salvation.</p>
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		<title>By: keith</title>
		<link>http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/2008/07/my-people-a-joy/comment-page-1/#comment-3354</link>
		<dc:creator>keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:15:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.blogsmonroe.com/christianpolitics/?p=112#comment-3354</guid>
		<description>this gentleman paints with the widest of brushes. google george barna for research on who is and isn't evangelical or born again, without being asked if they are either of those. you can find it in many of his perspectives regardles of the issue. 

i am not impress with this guys research as he identifies people by denomination or religon. i've read much of george barnas stuff and of the many, many folks who claim to be Christian really are not. i am more then sure the same can be said of hindu's, budists or any other religon. thats the problem with most of the research done on religon. they simply identfy someone as "catholic" who says they are yet does not live by the tenents of the catholic faith. same with Christians. you simply can not be a Christian if you believe there is any way to heaven but through Jesus. He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me."   i know that's devisive but a belief in Christ is a belief in Christ that He is who He says He is and He allows for noe other then Him....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this gentleman paints with the widest of brushes. google george barna for research on who is and isn&#8217;t evangelical or born again, without being asked if they are either of those. you can find it in many of his perspectives regardles of the issue. </p>
<p>i am not impress with this guys research as he identifies people by denomination or religon. i&#8217;ve read much of george barnas stuff and of the many, many folks who claim to be Christian really are not. i am more then sure the same can be said of hindu&#8217;s, budists or any other religon. thats the problem with most of the research done on religon. they simply identfy someone as &#8220;catholic&#8221; who says they are yet does not live by the tenents of the catholic faith. same with Christians. you simply can not be a Christian if you believe there is any way to heaven but through Jesus. He said, &#8220;I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me.&#8221;   i know that&#8217;s devisive but a belief in Christ is a belief in Christ that He is who He says He is and He allows for noe other then Him&#8230;.</p>
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