Liar’s Poker 2

The ink isn’t dry yet on whatever it was that Trump and Kim signed and we are already dealing with WILDLY divergent claims about what happened and why.

Before we start, however, I do want to acknowledge that at least in the short term, this is much better than threatening any kind of conflict. On the other hand the long term costs may be significant.

Let’s start with Trump.

He held a press conference yesterday to celebrate his supposed success. Here are some of lies that he told in the process.

“Chairman Kim and I just signed a joint statement which he reaffirmed his unwavering commitment to complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula….We signed a very, very comprehensive document.”

Simply not true. Compared to past documents that were signed between NK and the US, this document has been described as “remarkably vague, leaving it open to interpretation and debate”.

Here’s just one example from the Wash Post.

The statement said North Korea (officially the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, or DPRK) committed to “work towards the complete denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.” The phrase is not defined and “toward” is rather weak. In the past, North Korea viewed “denuclearization” to mean the United States removing the nuclear umbrella it provides to Japan and South Korea; there is no indication its definition has changed.

Contrast the Trump-Kim statement, for instance, with the Sept. 19, 2005, agreement signed by North Korea, the United States and four regional neighbors, which was much more specific:

“The DPRK committed to abandoning all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs and returning, at an early date, to the Treaty on the Nonproliferation of Nuclear Weapons and to IAEA safeguards. The United States affirmed that it has no nuclear weapons on the Korean Peninsula and has no intention to attack or invade the DPRK with nuclear or conventional weapons.”

“We will stop the war games which will save us a tremendous amount of money. Unless and until we see the future negotiations is not going along like it should. We will be saving a tremendous amount of money. Plus. It is very provocative. … They are tremendously expensive. The amount of money we spend on that is incredible.”

Trump provided no facts to back up his claim. What we know is that SK pays 50% of the non-personnel costs to keep US troops in the region. Since the troops are not leaving, there is no cost savings there. Also this was primarily a training exercise. Since troops will still need to be trained it is unclear how training them some other way will save a lot of money over training them in the same way that we have trained them for decades. If he plans to simply skip the training, then you have to ask the question of how that will affect their readiness to respond in case they are needed.

“In one case, they took billions of dollars during the Clinton regime. Took billions of dollars and nothing happened.”

A big lie.

The Clinton NK deal centered on NK decommissioning a nuclear power plant that could also be used to create weapons grade plutonium. In return the US promised two things. We would supply heavy oil every year to replace the electricity that NK would get from the plant. We would also (as part of a consortium of nations) build NK different reactors that could supply electricity but couldn’t be used to make weapons grade material. This was the deal the George Bush blew up.

The US spent about $50M over the 8 years of the Clinton administration supplying fuel oil. The consortium spent $2.5B on the reactor project before the US withdrew. $2B of that was paid for by SK and Japan.

NONE of that money went to NK. It was spent on power plant contractors and oil producers. Also during that period of time, the International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed through regular inspections that NK did put all of the fuel rods from their reactor in cooling ponds and there was no evidence of any other enrichment activities. NK didn’t restart their program until Bush II pulled out of the deal and invaded Iraq.

“On the Iran deal, I think Iran is a different country now. I don’t think they are looking as much to the Mediterranean and so much as Syria like they were with total confidence.”

There is no evidence that Iraq has stopped supporting the insurgent groups that they have been supporting.

“I notice some of the people are saying the president has agreed to meet. He has given up so much. I gave up nothing.”

Presidential summits are usually reserved for the end of a negotiating process and are the reward for getting a deal done. Putting the summit at the front end of the process is a significant concession. Evidence is what NK is claiming was also promised.

“When you look at all of the things we got and when we got our hostages back, I did not pay $1.8 billion in cash like the hostages that came back from Iran which was a disgraceful situation.”

Another big lie which Trump has continued to tell even though it has been widely debunked.

The money ($1.7B) was paid by the Shah to the US for military equipment. Delivery on that equipment was suspended when the Shah was overthrown. But we kept the money. In parallel with the nuclear discussions were negotiations to return some hostages and give them their money back for purchases that we never delivered.

“[Iran was a] terrible deal. … I don’t think a deal could be softer. First of all, we’re not paying $150 billion.”

Another repeated lie.

The US IS NOT paying Iran. As Iran meets the various milestones of their agreement, billions of dollars of IRAN’s MONEY which had been frozen in foreign banks around the globe will become accessible to them. Most of that money was in payment for oil. Our Treasury Department estimates that the amount of money that will eventually flow back to Iran is $55B. Iran’s estimates are even lower than that ($32B).

“His country does love him. His people, you see the fervor. They have a great fervor.”

This is the most frightening thing that Trump has said regarding NK. NK is a gulag state with prison camps, forced labor, torture, and death for anyone who opposes KJU. Celebrating Kim’s regime sets the cause of freedom and democracy back decades.

Trump has already laid a solid foundation for being regarded as the worst president in history. He is now running the risk of going down in history as the Neville Chamberlain of his generation.

Here’s what the NK said they got from the deal.

“it is important to abide by the principle of step-by-step and simultaneous action in achieving peace, stability and denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula.”

We’re saying that this is going to be a rapid total and complete de-nuke process.

Rodong Sinmun, official newspaper of the ruling Workers’ Party — also claimed that the president pledged to suspend military drills with South Korea, and lift sanctions on the North.

Trump did suspend the military drills. He did not say he would be lifting sanctions. Though this WAS something that China recommended.

The KCNA report, as well as the joint statement after the summit, also mentioned that the president had offered North Korea unspecified security guarantees, which Pyongyang considers an indispensable precondition for nuclear disarmament.

Trump did not mention what security guarantees he had been offered.

Summary

The devil is always in the details and there just aren’t a lot of details. It is much better to be talking versus threatening to lob missiles at each other. This agreement is little more than an agreement to start working on an agreement, yet it is being promoted as a peace plan that will save the world from nuclear war.

The optics of this particular deal are that the meeting itself gave both Trump and Kim something that they wanted. It did little to advance the cause of a real and lasting peace. What is likely is that talks will continue for a LONG period of time. That will also benefit both parties. Kim will be able to pretty much continue what he has been doing without the threat of being overthrown. Trump will continue to live in his fantasy world about how much progress has been made and paint himself as an expert in solving intractable foreign relations problems.

KJU has not demonstrated that he has any interest in changing. Until he does, he is a dangerous person that we should not be treating as a friend. The risk is that KJU is a realist and fantasy rarely survives when confronted with reality.

The long term costs of accepting a NK as legitimate member of the international community without a commitment on their part to human rights reform is chilling. Apparently, a different set of rules applies to countries with nuclear capabilities. That lesson is not lost on the other dictators of the world.

56 Responses to “Liar’s Poker 2”

  1. Jeff Beamsley says:

    just a postscript.

    Trump said that NK is “no longer a nuclear threat”.

    How naive does he think we are?

    KJU still has missiles. He still has nukes.

    He is still a ruthless dictator.

    Also the REASON why there was an overt threat to begin with was because Trump felt compelled to escalate a confrontation with Kim. A more mature leader would not have ignored the testing that KJU did, but would have responded by simply cranking down on sanctions.

    Finally this statement substantially undermines one of the basic US negotiating points.

    If the US no longer believes that NK’s nuclear stockpile represents a threat, then why should they be required to give them up.

    Instead we have an inexperienced person winging it because they think that they can.

    Clearly he can’t.

  2. Keith says:

    Good morning Jeff,

    You ended with this-“Instead we have an inexperienced person winging it because they think that they can. Clearly they can’t.

    I’d be careful about making comments like that until it’s over. Then judge the result. Your favorite economist and you thought the economy would crash after only a few months of Trumps policy…. you also thought he would be done by now.

    Your posts can be taken from watching MSNBC and CNN. I hear every post you make recently before you ever make them on those two networks. It’s amazing the amount of negative reporting and, in their case hatred, that so openly comes across.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-james-comey-report-kass-0617-story.html

  3. Jeff Beamsley says:

    You ended with this-“Instead we have an inexperienced person winging it because they think that they can. Clearly they can’t.

    I’d be careful about making comments like that until it’s over. Then judge the result. Your favorite economist and you thought the economy would crash after only a few months of Trumps policy…. you also thought he would be done by now.

    This is from the “let’s give him a chance and see what happens” camp.

    What has happened is that he has alienated our allies and tried to make friends with our enemies. So let’s look at the results so far.

    1. Are we any closer to peace in the Middle East? NO
    2. Are we in any better place in Iran than we were before Trump tore up that agreement? NO
    3. Has there been any substantive progress toward reducing NK’s nuclear stockpile? NO
    4. Have relationships improved with Russia? NO
    5. In the meantime we have a stealth war going on in Africa where our troops are getting killed. Any sign of progress there? NO
    6. Are relationships with our allies better or worse? Worse

    The ONLY thing that he can claim any credit for is defeating ISIS in Syria, but he hasn’t figured out how to get our troops out of there yet – because it appears that he didn’t have a plan on what to do post ISIS (see above comment on winging it).

    Your posts can be taken from watching MSNBC and CNN. I hear every post you make recently before you ever make them on those two networks. It’s amazing the amount of negative reporting and, in their case hatred, that so openly comes across.

    I don’t watch MSNBC or CNN.

    I’m just reporting the facts. Not my fault that they are negative. Trump is an authoritarian and I think that is dangerous to our democracy. I will continue pointing that out as long as he continues to act that way.

  4. Jeff Beamsley says:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-met-james-comey-report-kass-0617-story.html

    This shows why the Trib, which used to be a great paper, is now just another right wing rag.

    This is an OPINION column. It is NOT news. But it is being presented as news.

    Beyond that, WHO CARES?

    Neither Obama nor Hillary Clinton will ever hold another public office.

    Also neither of them has been convicted of a crime even though both were subject to NUMEROUS investigations during their time in office.

    So please tell me what is YOUR fixation with this ongoing discussion of all of the “terrible” things that they did when they were in office?

    I understand how the current administration would like to keep running against both of these people. They ARE currently under investigation and somewhere around 20 people have already pleaded guilty. During the Obama administration there was only one – David Petraeus.

  5. Jeff Beamsley says:

    BTW, with regard to hate, you might find this OPINION column from Charles Blow an interesting discussion on hateful behavior.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/06/opinion/trump-central-park-five.html?action=click&module=Associated&pgtype=Article&region=Footer&contentCollection=Charles%20M.%20Blow

  6. Jeff Beamsley says:

    It’s amazing the amount of negative reporting and, in their case hatred, that so openly comes across.

    I think Jennifer Rubin’s comments in the Wash Post pretty much sum it up.

    We know Trump embraces dictators, attacks allies, assaults law enforcement, undermines the rule of law and lies nonstop. Evidently that’s not enough to arouse the ire of most Republicans. However, among all of the mind-numbingly awful things the GOP has countenanced, none comes close to the family separation policy. There surely must be a wide, diverse coalition of Americans who recoil at a practice so distasteful — a coalition that transcends class, race, gender and ideology and is backed by Catholic, Baptist and Jewish clergy (among others) who have denounced the practice as evil. These Americans will have the opportunity in November to throw out politicians who cheer the monstrous policy of child separation.

    I’ll write some more about this in the future, but here’s a quick snapshot.

    The DOJ implements a “no tolerance” policy. Everyone who comes across the border will be jailed as a criminal. Doesn’t matter whether or not they are seeking amnesty. Because the adults are being put in jail, any children that are with them have to cared for until they can be placed with family or a suitable alternative. That’s the law.

    The result is that parents are being separated from their children including infants.

    Trump says that there is nothing that he can do to prevent kids being taken away from their parents (big lie). He blames his own separation policy on the Democrats (even bigger lie). The only laws covering these kids were signed by Republican presidents and those laws cover how kids who are not in the custody of their parents should be treated. They do not mandate the separation of families.

    Sessions says that this is Christian and quotes the same passage in the Bible that slave owners used to justify slavery. Sara Sanders backs him up. Many leaders of MANY churches disagree.

    Trump then says that he is using these kids as leverage to get the Democrats to accept some of the things he has demanded be included in an immigration reform bill.

    As a result of all of his lying, and the incredible cruelty of HIS policy, he is getting a lot of negative press. Please tell me why he doesn’t COMPLETELY deserve the sort of coverage he is getting.

  7. Keith says:

    …..and so the authoritarian Trump signs an executive order to end the practice which he call terrible.

    Please write the follow up post praising this action….

    Also a side note…. the act of issuing an executive order is about as authoritarian an action as a president can make. How many executive orders did past presidents make? I don’t recall you discribing any of them that way. Yes?

  8. Keith says:

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/21/rasmussen-parents-to-blame-border-crisis/

    On the subject of media influence. What narrative would you say the media has authored with regards to the boarder in the last two weeks. How much time do think has been given to the thought the parents are to blame verse Trump is a racist?

    In fact I’ve seen no pleading with parents NOT to bring their kids illegally to the border so they WONT be separated from each other.

  9. Keith says:

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/29/embarrassment-for-new-york-times-as-top-editor-falls-for-old-photo-amid-weekend-misleading-anti-trump-tweets.amp.html

    These two links are a very small sample of what’s out there. Can you and I agree the board is political for both sides? The Dems running to the boarder to bash trump is pathetic. How about let’s do something.

    As an aside the Dems has better be careful with there trump bashing. It’s getting old.

  10. Keith says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5878973/Owner-restaurant-booted-Sarah-Huckabee-Sanders-speaks-out.html

    Ee’re Also getting a bit carried away. There was another Trump Office’s chased and heck else out of a restaurant the other night. Nothing like respectful discourse. In facif I’ve read it’s hypocritical for a Trump person to eat at a Mexican restaurant. Can you imagine that?

  11. Jeff Beamsley says:

    …..and so the authoritarian Trump signs an executive order to end the practice which he call terrible.

    Please write the follow up post praising this action….

    Because?

    He CREATED the situation.
    He LIED about his responsibility for the problem AND his ability to solve the problem.
    He ADMITTED that at least part of his motivation was to exact a political concession for Democrats whom he falsely blamed for the problem he created.
    He signed another executive order without admitting that this was something he could have done when the problem originally became well know. The order did not explicitly tell the DHS what they needed to do to resolve the situation, so there is still confusion. Now, months after separating parents from their children with no plan to reunite them, DHS claims they have a plan. There was no plan in place on how to deal with children when the “zero tolerance” order was made. It wasn’t a surprise to anyone what would happen. That’s because he doesn’t particularly WANT to resolve the situation.

    Sorry, Trump is going to have to do a lot more to convince me that he is worthy of praise on this issue. I’ll post more of this in the near future.

    Also a side note…. the act of issuing an executive order is about as authoritarian an action as a president can make. How many executive orders did past presidents make? I don’t recall you discribing any of them that way. Yes?

    This is a red herring question suggesting that “everyone does it”, so Trump should be able to do it too.

    It isn’t the executive order. It is what the executive order involves.

    Trump’s “zero tolerance” exec order is just as legal as Obama’s DACA exec order because the courts have given the executive branch broad powers to set and enforce immigration laws. As we’ve seen with the travel ban, however, there are limits to that power.

    When Trump suggests, however, that illegal immigrants should be stripped of their constitutional rights to due process – THAT is authoritarianism (and very scary).

  12. Jeff Beamsley says:

    http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/21/rasmussen-parents-to-blame-border-crisis/

    On the subject of media influence. What narrative would you say the media has authored with regards to the boarder in the last two weeks. How much time do think has been given to the thought the parents are to blame verse Trump is a racist?

    In fact I’ve seen no pleading with parents NOT to bring their kids illegally to the border so they WONT be separated from each other.

    I figured you would get to this sooner or later.

    Are you REALLY going to attempt to defend Trump’s actions based on desperate decisions made by immigrant parents?

    Answer a couple of questions for me.

    Why do you think families are taking this long and dangerous journey to the US?

    What would motivate you to sell all you have, leave your home with only what you can carry, and start walking with your family (let’s make this easy) to Canada?

    Give me an honest answer to the second question and you will have the answer to the first question.

  13. Jeff Beamsley says:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/06/21/dem_sen_tammy_baldwin_stumbles_when_cnn_anchor_asks_if_obama_family_separation_outraged_her.html

    I figured you would try this one too.

    The summary of this argument, which I’ve also seen, is Obama separated families and nobody said anything, so why is everyone upset now that Trump is doing exactly the same thing.

    Trump IS NOT doing exactly the same thing. The scope, scale, and cruelty of the Trump actions is hard to fathom in a civilized democracy.

    If you really care about this comparison, please read this article from Factcheck.org.

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/did-the-obama-administration-separate-families/

    Here are the two salient quotes about the Obama policy.

    “Some children may have been separated from the adults they entered with, in cases where the family relationship could not be established, child trafficking was suspected, or there were not sufficient family detention facilities available. … However, the zero-tolerance policy is the first time that a policy resulting in separation is being applied across the board.”

    and

    Brown told us that while the Obama administration “did separate some families,” it also tried to detain families together. In 2016, a court ruling limited how long children with their parents could be in family detention centers. That ruling confirmed that a 1997 settlement applied to both unaccompanied and accompanied minors, as we’ve explained before.

    “At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.”

  14. Jeff Beamsley says:

    https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/29/embarrassment-for-new-york-times-as-top-editor-falls-for-old-photo-amid-weekend-misleading-anti-trump-tweets.amp.html

    These two links are a very small sample of what’s out there. Can you and I agree the board is political for both sides? The Dems running to the boarder to bash trump is pathetic. How about let’s do something.

    As an aside the Dems has better be careful with there trump bashing. It’s getting old.

    Sorry, not buying this false equivalency either.

    The ONLY reason Trump changed his policy is because of the pressure the administration suffered when people across the political spectrum realized what was going on.

    The Time magazine picture was unfortunate, but it WAS an accurate representation of anguish suffered by children separated from their parents.

    The retweets of photos taken during the Obama administration were also unfortunate. But the reality is that these were NOT published by the NYT. They were tweeted by one of the NYT editors on a personal account. He apologized for the same. AND there have been plenty of pictures that WERE authentic of children being detained in wire cages – so it wasn’t that kids in cages was an inaccurate description. It was only that these particular children in cages were being detained because of the reasons described in the Factcheck.org post and not because their parents were apprehended at the border and jailed on a federal misdemeanor while awaiting trial.

  15. Keith says:

    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/393937-Sarah-Sanders-Red-Hen-moment-shows-mob-medias-mentality

    I enjoyed this piece. Particularly the second to last paragraph. Surely we can do better.

  16. Jeff Beamsley says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5878973/Owner-restaurant-booted-Sarah-Huckabee-Sanders-speaks-out.html

    Ee’re Also getting a bit carried away. There was another Trump Office’s chased and heck else out of a restaurant the other night. Nothing like respectful discourse. In facif I’ve read it’s hypocritical for a Trump person to eat at a Mexican restaurant. Can you imagine that?

    I’m not supportive of what has become public shaming.

    Unfortunately this is where leadership comes in.

    When a McCain supporter insisted that Obama was an Arab, McCain corrected her.

    That’s not the case in Trump’s America.

    So the big question is, how can you hold anyone accountable for partisan behavior when the President doesn’t hold himself accountable for it?

    IMHO, this is part of the unraveling of the fabric of democracy when people stop thinking of each other as citizens and can only conceive of those with differing political views as ignorant, biased, or corrupt.

  17. Jeff Beamsley says:

    http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/393937-Sarah-Sanders-Red-Hen-moment-shows-mob-medias-mentality

    I enjoyed this piece. Particularly the second to last paragraph. Surely we can do better.

    Which is the bigger sin?

    Separating an infant from their mother?

    Suggesting that someone who supported separating an infant from their mother is unwelcome in some public places?

    Laying this all at the feet of the media is too easy, too facile.

    Melania Trump wore a coat with a message. It is reasonable to ask why. When there isn’t a reasonable answer coming from Mrs. Trump, everyone including her husband are just left to speculate.

    This is a failure in leadership and a consequence of this administrations deliberate effort to undermine the credibility of any institution that dares oppose it.

  18. Keith says:

    Hey Jeff. Been very busy.

    I won’t address Trump and the boarder. To your comment above I will only say NO ONE has shown any significant willingness to fix the boarder. I applaud him for trying. And no it’s not his fault. (and please tell your liberal friends that kids were in cages before Trump became president. Media selective outrage at its finest) It takes an illegal trying to cross to create the problem. And yes I get why they’re coming. But just like the financial crisis it took mostly stupid home purchasers to buy the sugary candy the banks were selling. You want to cross the boarder with your kids? Roll the dice. No I think it’s terrible that this happens. I hate the pictures. But also remember parents sewed money into the kids shirt and put them on a boat for a better life at the begging of the last century. Please rewatch The Godfather. 🤓

  19. Keith says:

    YS)What would motivate you to sell all you have, leave your home with only what you can carry, and start walking with your family (let’s make this easy) to Canada?

    MR) Red heiring of a question. First I’ll say this I may do exaxtly the same thing if I were them. Ok. That’s out of the way.

    That’s NOT what’ we’re discussing though. What is the United States responsibility to them? What is any country’s responsibility to anyone who wants to get into a country?

    Jeff, simple question and please don’t be offended. Just a base line question here to know the starting point. Are you for open boarders?

  20. Keith says:

    “At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.”

    I googled several ways to understand how many actually show up to their hearing. Best and most generous answer 50-70%. That good with you.

    Again to this point no one wants a solution. Again I applaud Trump for trying.

  21. Keith says:

    Kids in cages by Trump = outrage
    Kids in cages from anyone else = yawn.

    It’s that simple Jeff… and I’m speaking about the media. Not policy.

  22. Keith says:

    YS)IMHO, this is part of the unraveling of the fabric of democracy when people stop thinking of each other as citizens and can only conceive of those with differing political views as ignorant, biased, or corrupt.

    MR) we are not a reflection of president Trump rather he is a reflection of us.

    Trump ran a campaign of ripping into his oppents. I am a bit of a believer in reaping and sowing.

    The next 3 months or so will reach a new low as the senate confirms the next Supreme Court Justice.

  23. Keith says:

    Joe Crowley is Eric Cantor. Thoughts?

    Democratic socialist/tea party?

  24. Keith says:

    I have never seen such panic and illogical thoughts as I’m watching from Dems leaders and analysts as I have last night and tonight since Kennedy announced…… can you imagine what would happen if, IF, Trump would win a second term and Ginsburg and Byer have to go another 4 years????

  25. Jeff Beamsley says:

    I’m really disappointed with your replies.

    They are the current standard issue WH line.

    1. Blame the parents
    2. Blame the media
    3. Blame Obama
    4. What’s the fuss? This is the same stuff everyone else has done.

    Just curious when anyone is going hold the Trump accountable for his own actions?

    You are going to applaud him for a cynical policy that caused a humanitarian crisis at the border where young children were separated from their parents WITH NO PLAN on how to reunite them?

    You are going to applaud that he LIED about his own ability to control this situation choosing instead to blame Democrats?

    You are going to applaud that he folded under media and political pressure to stop the policy while STILL failing to produce a plan to reunite the children who were separated from their parents?

    I could go on, but I fear that this is all falling on deaf ears.

    Shame on you.

  26. Jeff Beamsley says:

    MR) Red heiring of a question. First I’ll say this I may do exaxtly the same thing if I were them. Ok. That’s out of the way.

    If you are sincere in saying that you would do the same thing, then why do you insist on blaming them?

    From your previous post

    It takes an illegal trying to cross to create the problem.

    The PROBLEM is two fold.

    1. They people who are coming to this country are fleeing for their lives. Their countries are overrun by drug gangs and violence. In Europe, they are fleeing REAL WAR. The refugees (you call them illegals) did not cause the problem. They are simply looking for a better life in a safer place.

    2. Some of these people are coming here to work because they can make more money working in this country than they can working in their own country.

    That’s NOT what’ we’re discussing though. What is the United States responsibility to them? What is any country’s responsibility to anyone who wants to get into a country?

    BY LAW, we will accept those fleeing violence and seeking asylum. THAT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY. We ARE FAILING in OUR RESPONSIBILITY to effectively separate those who have legitimate claims to asylumfrom those who are just coming here looking for work. Trump made the situation WORSE by treating ALL THOSE CROSSING THE BORDER as criminals. IT FAILED. What has replaced it is a pretty much what the status quo was BEFORE HIS DISASTROUS ORDER. Instead of asking WHY he would he implement a plan that HE KNEW was going to fail, you are applauding him for TRYING? He was NOT trying. He was USING innocent children in an effort to extract a concession from Democrats on immigration reform that HE COULD NOT GET HIS OWN PARTY TO PASS.

    Is this REALLY the sort of thing that you support?

    If so AGAIN shame on you.

    Jeff, simple question and please don’t be offended. Just a base line question here to know the starting point. Are you for open boarders?

    That is a silly question born of too much time watching and reading right wing media sites.

    I’ve already said MULTIPLE times that we need immigration reform that is driven by industry rather than politics. WE NEED WORKERS. WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH TO SUPPORT THE ECONOMIC GROWTH WE NEED TO PAY FOR THE BABY BOOMER RETIREMENT. We should have a simple program where those who want to work can secure a work visa BEFORE they come to the US. It is the responsibility of employers to get them here and the responsibility of employers to make sure they go home when their work is done. Depending on the work, they can bring their families if they can prove that they can afford to support them while they are here. If they have kids while they are here, those kids are US citizens.

    Employers should be able to get as many of these work visas as they need.

    Government focuses enforcement on employers with stiff fines and other penalties sufficient to discourage employers from hiring undocumented workers.

    We also should EXPAND our asylum program in a similar fashion with support from those communities that WANT new young families to settle in the area. There are MANY small towns that would welcome families in order to save their towns. Government’s responsibility is to process the claims for amnesty quickly and provide legal assistance for those making those claims (not the case today).

    Work and Asylum are the two main drivers of immigration. If there are no jobs for those coming here outside the work program, illegal immigration for work will dry up. If there is a well managed asylum program, those with legit claims will not have to suffer exploitation, deprivation, and violence in their attempt to find a better life. Instead they will be welcomed.

    At the same time, we should be working with ALL of the countries in this continent to make sure that those fleeing violence have a choice AND that the root causes of violence that are creating asylum seekers are addressed. Failed states, climate change, dictators instead of democracy, corruption, drug economies are problems that we are our stable neighbors should take seriously and be involved in helping solve.

  27. Jeff Beamsley says:

    Kids in cages by Trump = outrage
    Kids in cages from anyone else = yawn.

    It’s that simple Jeff… and I’m speaking about the media. Not policy.

    You are speaking the right wing line.

    This is NOT about children in cages.

    This IS about separating children from their parents.

    The right wing media does not want to talk about separating children from their parents because THAT is the cruelty that Trump created. Instead they want to talk about the hypocrisy of complaining about the conditions under which those kids are being held, since it is similar to conditions that have been used in the past for unaccompanied minors.

    We have always struggled with what to do with unaccompanied minors. Please don’t confuse that with the Trump policy which purposefully separated young children from their parents.

  28. Jeff Beamsley says:

    MR) we are not a reflection of president Trump rather he is a reflection of us.

    Trump ran a campaign of ripping into his oppents. I am a bit of a believer in reaping and sowing.

    The next 3 months or so will reach a new low as the senate confirms the next Supreme Court Justice.

    That is an interesting thought.

    The fact that Trump got elected IS a reflection of the deep distrust that a segment of voters has in the government and the democratic process.

    Fortunately that group is not in the majority.

    As I’ve posted before, I believe we are at a critical juncture in our democracy. Either the majority asserts itself and rejects authoritarianism, or democracy as we know it will die.

    That’s because the other two branches of our government, the congress, and the courts are failing in their role to limit the excesses of this particular executive.

    That’s why you are seeing columns from MANY thought leaders across the political spectrum encouraging conservatives to vote for Democrats in this next election in order to demonstrate that we AS A SOCIETY reject authoritarians.

    As far as the confirmation fight, it will be ugly because it drives the basic fears of both Trump supporters and those who oppose him.

  29. Jeff Beamsley says:

    Joe Crowley is Eric Cantor. Thoughts?

    Democratic socialist/tea party?

    Surprise! There is diversity of thought in the Democratic Party. It is possible to be pro-life and still win as a Democrat. It is possible to be a socialist and still win as a Democrat. It is possible to be a Muslim, gay, trans, etc. and still win as Democrat.

    What I think is MUCH more interesting is whether you can be a Nazi or a supporter of the KKK and win as a Republican.

    What do you think?

  30. Jeff Beamsley says:

    I have never seen such panic and illogical thoughts as I’m watching from Dems leaders and analysts as I have last night and tonight since Kennedy announced…… can you imagine what would happen if, IF, Trump would win a second term and Ginsburg and Byer have to go another 4 years????

    I’ve already addressed this below.

    Authoritarians are the greatest threat to democracies. That’s because they use the tools of democracy to attack that same democracy.

    The “panic” as you describe it is the realization that we won’t be able to depend on the courts and an effective check against this President.

    But the latest SCOTUS travel ban decision already proved that. While the courts decided AGAINST the Colorado Civil Right commission because of bias that they said they detected in emails and public statements by that Commission against the plaintiff in the case, they IGNORED all of the biased statements made by Trump suggesting that those didn’t have bearing on the intent of the ban.

    What those who treasure democracy are realizing is that we are going to have to get this done at the ballot box.

    That’s how it should be.

    BTW, I think that Booker’s point is a valid one. There would be a potential conflict of interest if Trump nominated a justice who shared the same legal views as Dershowitz on the broad powers and immunity of the chief executive. That’s because Trump and his administration ARE currently under investigation. Any new justices may be required to recuse themselves in order to prevent even the appearance of a conflict of interest. Packing the court with justices who support dismantling the democracy is what authoritarians do. This isn’t politics. This is survival.

  31. Jeff Beamsley says:

    “At that point,” Brown said, “family detention dwindled and most families were released into the US, either on their own with a notice to appear or under Alternatives to Detention, which could be an ankle bracelet or a supervised monitoring provision where they had to check in with ICE regularly until their immigration court hearing.”

    I googled several ways to understand how many actually show up to their hearing. Best and most generous answer 50-70%. That good with you.

    Compared to what? If you killed them all at the border, you would also prevent any “illegals” from getting away with something.

    Let’s briefly recap.

    People are coming here for two reasons.

    1. It is safer for them to leave home with all that they have and risk a long expensive dangerous journey to the US because the US is safe and they have heard that they will get a fair hearing on their claim of asylum.
    2. They are looking for work and there is no work where they live.

    Our current immigration system is broken. It takes many months for an asylum case to be heard. The court say that you can’t hold families more than 20 days. So you either put them in detention camps and let them go after 20 days, or you release them to their families and deal with the fact they won’t show up at their hearing.

    Part of the admitted Trump strategy was to separate the parents from the children and then promise the parents that they would reunite them with their children IF the parents give up their asylum claim and agree to be deported. Then when the parents DO give up their asylum claims, they are just deported without the children because the agency responsible for housing the children has no way to associate that child with the parent who is in custody by a different agency. The ONLY way that separated children are being reunited with their parents is through third party lawyers and social workers volunteering their time. That good with you?

    Here’s a link to a recent Fresh Air podcast describing the details of this cruel practice.

    https://www.npr.org/2018/06/28/624247540/reporter-covering-immigration-warns-government-is-ill-equipped-to-reunite-famili

    Again to this point no one wants a solution. Again I applaud Trump for trying.

    Repeating this doesn’t make it true.

    Trump CREATED this problem. Family separation was NOT part of the immigration enforcement process before the Trump order. That’s because, besides being remarkably cruel, it DOESN’T WORK. Implementing a problem that MANDATES separating families knowing that the policy is going to cause a humanitarian crisis doesn’t qualify as a “try”. It is instead the act of an authoritarian who has no interest in a solution, only in political gain. Your response is evidence that his plan worked.

    BTW, Republicans could pass a solution tomorrow. They have a majority in both houses of Congress and the White House. When you say “no one wants a solution”, that’s inaccurate. The accurate description is that the Republican Party CAN’T agree on a solution. If you recall it was Trump who rescinded DACA and threatened to start deporting dreamers. Democrats came up with a solution. Trade DACA for border wall funding. Trump first agreed to the deal and then killed by adding in other stuff when he got push back FROM HIS OWN PARTY. If Democrats had a majority in the House and Senate, they would have passed immigration reform a long time ago. So please stop saying that no one is interested in a solution.

    The problem, just like with Obamacare, is that Trump has painted himself into a corner.

    He got elected telling the country that immigrants were the reason why they were having a hard time making ends meet. (LIE)
    That crime is on the rise because of immigrants. (LIE)
    That immigrants are invading our country. (LIE)
    That building a wall will make them safer. (LIE)

    This left him and the Republicans who support him with very little room to craft any kind of compromise that reflects a firm grasp of reality.

    So please stop suggesting that no one is interested in a solution. Trump created this xenophobic political atmosphere. The result is that it has become very difficult for Republicans to put propose any sort of workable solution because a significant number of them are convinced that ALL immigration (legal and illegal) is bad.

    This issue will get voted on again this November and likely again in 2020.

  32. Jeff Beamsley says:

    Just in case there was any thought that perhaps the Trump administration was rethinking their punitive plan regarding immigrant families, the Wash Post has new information.

    The plan is to detain mothers and children in camps while they are waiting for their cases to come to trial. They plan to get around the current legal requirements regarding time limits on that detention by seeking the approval from the mother to waive her right to release. They will do that by threatening the mother with separation. In other words when the mother and child are placed in detention centers the mother will be given a choice. Either she waives her right to be released in 20-30 days, or at the end of that period, she will be sent to jail and her child will be sent to the refugee resettlement authorities.

    BTW, the Trump administration has confirmed that their “zero tolerance” policy resulted in 2,500 children being separated from their parents since April. They have successfully reunited only 500 of them.

    Still think Trump should be applauded for his “try”?

    Here’s what the Wash Post fact checking article on the subject says.

    The doublespeak coming from Trump and top administration officials on this issue is breathtaking, not only because of the sheer audacity of these claims but also because they keep being repeated without evidence. Immigrant families are being separated at the border not because of Democrats and not because some law forces this result, as Trump insists. They’re being separated because the Trump administration, under its zero-tolerance policy, is choosing to prosecute border-crossing adults for any offenses.

    This includes illegal-entry misdemeanors, which are being prosecuted at a rate not seen in previous administrations. Because the act of crossing itself is now being treated as an offense worthy of prosecution, any family that enters the United States illegally is likely to end up separated. Nielsen may choose not to call this a “family separation policy,” but that’s precisely the effect it has.

    Sessions, who otherwise owns up to what’s happening, has suggested that the Flores settlement and a court ruling are forcing his hand. They’re not. At heart, this is an issue of prosecutorial discretion: his discretion.

    The Trump administration owns this family-separation policy

  33. Jeff Beamsley says:

    https://www.facebook.com/LevinTV/videos/2114899668835366/

    Neither Mark Levin or Facebook are reliable news sources. Not interested.

  34. Jeff Beamsley says:

    BTW, the claim that child separations have been going on forever is also bogus and the uproar now is just politics is also bogus.

    A DC federal judge ruled today that the Trump administration has to RETURN to the practice of previous administrations regarding those claiming asylum. That means that each person claiming asylum must receive their own trial. They can no longer make a blanket determination that all of these people are in this country illegally and put them in jail.

    Here’s what USA today said.

    In recent years, Homeland Security allowed more than 90 percent of asylum-seekers who had proven they have a “credible fear” of returning to their home country to be released in the U.S. to await their final hearing before an immigration judge. Since President Donald Trump took office, those rates plummeted to 8 percent in Los Angeles, 2 percent in Detroit, and 0 percent in El Paso, Philadelphia and Newark. the locations where the plaintiffs are being held.

    and

    “This ruling means the Trump administration cannot use indefinite detention as a weapon to punish and deter asylum seekers,” said Michael Tan, senior staff attorney with the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project.

    It’s NOT the same.

    This is a calculated plan to systematically reduce the number of those who actually get an asylum hearing. If they have family, those kids are taken away from them and will only be returned of they agree to drop their asylum claims and accept deportation. Those without kids are put in jail indefinitely and told that the only way they will get out is to give up their asylum claim and accept deportation.

    This is NOT the same.

  35. keith says:

    Hey Jeff,
    Hope your Independence day was enjoyable…

    YS)
    1. Blame the parents
    2. Blame the media
    3. Blame Obama
    4. What’s the fuss? This is the same stuff everyone else has done.

    MR) You really need to quit reading my responses from an argumentative bias. You clearly are. The border is a quagmire, its a mess. you blame Trump alone as the evil bad guy… The border problems were their before he was elected and unless congress acts they will be there after he leaves. There are laws on the books that are NOT being enforced. So who’s to blame, EVERYONE who hasn’t acted!!! Name the person, they’re to blame!!!

    Here are facts, there are laws on how to legally enter our country, don’t follow them at your own risk. anythings that happens after that is at your own risk and choice.

    Question – if a a person from England arrives at JFK without a passport or proper documentation they are turned around to go back where they came from. Are they/should they be treated any differently then someone who swims the Rio Grande?

    Jeff, I am merely counter punching your heavily biased posts. You, more then ever, are locked into one way thinking. Mark Laven is a legal scholar and you refuse to even listen to his words. I fear you are living in the NYT, Wash Post, Liberal bubble. (who’s heads appear to be exploding) DO you ever read counter point? It’s why I love reading your stuff, and listen to an read what i can of opposing views.

    I also find i a bit ironic the dems had full control of congress and didn’t act on this issue. I am convinced “traditional DC” repubs & dems don’t want this fixed. They simply raise too much money from it.

  36. keith says:

    You responded to my statement

    MR) Red heiring of a question. First I’ll say this I may do exactly the same thing if I were them. Ok. That’s out of the way.

    YS)If you are sincere in saying that you would do the same thing, then why do you insist on blaming them?

    I am sincere – but I also would be doing so at my own risk. I’m not blaming, those are your words and every liberal i hear and read.

    I would understand that there is a legal way to enter the USA. I would also know and accept the responsibility that if I tried to come here any way but legally i would be doing so at my own risk. to bring my children with me would be to accept the risk I, and I alone” would be exposing them to. I would be hopeful I could get away with it if that’s what I decided. I don’t understand whats so hard to understand about that. Jeff please remove your bias from logical thoughts and conclusions.

    I said years and years ago what i would do as president. Those here illegally would come out of the shadows and be made legal. A wall will be built to control the boarder as it is not I believe now, until proven otherwise, possible to do otherwise. So please don’t confuse me, or most on the right for hating anyone….

  37. keith says:

    YS)If so AGAIN shame on you.

    MR) Really?

  38. keith says:

    Jeff –

    You said to my honest question – MR)Jeff, simple question and please don’t be offended. Just a base line question here to know the starting point. Are you for open boarders?

    YS)That is a silly question born of too much time watching and reading right wing media sites.

    Jeff you do this all too often. Jeff why would anyone want to carry out a conversation with you when you continually belittle them with that silly remark. my comments are merely they product of watching right wing TV, I don’t hardly at all, and reading right wing media sites, not sure how much of that I do as i read many things. Your have named your favorites and they are all unequivocally left wing. Your posts and thoughts recently are straight off of MSNBC and CNN. How do I know that? Because that’s what is on my TV in the late evenings. Who’s the guests on those networks? WASH POST, NYT’s writers and contributors and every other of your sources. Why do I watch and listen? Because I want to hear and learn from the other opinions.

    to the question I asked above, its not a silly question. It was an honest one. I never hear the follow-up answered by the left to what happens AFTER we make them all legal. Many think they should just be allowed to keep coming. If so then WE have no control and the board IS OPEN. Many say its a human right to come here…. they simply lawlessness.

  39. keith says:

    YS)The right wing media does not want to talk about separating children from their parents because THAT is the cruelty that Trump created. Instead they want to talk about the hypocrisy of complaining about the conditions under which those kids are being held, since it is similar to conditions that have been used in the past for unaccompanied minors.

    MR) You’re kidding again right? Are you that biased? The mainstream media is blasting on the lead stories is the conditions the kids are being kept in… Why wouldn’t there be a response? Jeff come on my friend. The “right wing” media is doing nothing the left didn’t do to support President Obama… You’re losing your sense of perspective. like it or not, and I want you to know I don’t like it, this is what our news media has become, and yes the NYT’s and Wash Post included.

  40. keith says:

    YS)But the latest SCOTUS travel ban decision already proved that. While the courts decided AGAINST the Colorado Civil Right commission because of bias that they said they detected in emails and public statements by that Commission against the plaintiff in the case, they IGNORED all of the biased statements made by Trump suggesting that those didn’t have bearing on the intent of the ban.

    MR) The travel ban was perfectly decided and thank you for having the honestly to not call it the Muslim ban. The decision was rightly decided but look what you’ve decided it means. It proves that 5 justices looked at the law and powers of the president and said he has the power to do what he did and it is NOT our responsibilty to interpt his motivation for doing so. Can you imagine what would happen to presidential powers it the supreme court got to weigh in on every decision as to his INTENT!

    The Obama administration determined the same country’s Trump banned from travel. The difference is Trump DID something about it, rightly or wrongly in anyone’s opinion, “until such time as we can have faith in their screening process” The president has the authority to do so. How you could even begin to question that is beyond me. The opinion wrote by Kennedy also said “be careful.” they clear present the idea that the court does their job and the President does his and most importantly the ELECTORATE does theirs!!!!!!

  41. Jeff Beamsley says:

    Question – if a a person from England arrives at JFK without a passport or proper documentation they are turned around to go back where they came from. Are they/should they be treated any differently then someone who swims the Rio Grande?

    Several problems with your example. A person would not be able to get on a flight without a passport of proper documentation.

    So let’s use a more accurate example.

    A person sails across the Atlantic ocean. Assuming they have intent and the means, they can dock their boat just about anywhere and go anywhere in this country that they want to go. They will have violated our immigration laws. If they are caught, they could be prosecuted and deported. That prosecution and deportation would require going in front a judge. THAT’s how our immigration law works.

    If a person was seeking asylum from, let’s say, the war in Syria and they were able to get a boat and they were able to sail across the Atlantic. THEY would required, by law, to present themselves at border crossing and request asylum. Let’s say that they did this at Ellis Island. They would not be turned away. The LAW requires that they get a hearing on their asylum case. The question is what happens to them while they await their hearing. The choice the Trump administration has made is to hold all of these people who are seeking asylum in custody in jail. That meant that if they had children, those children had to separated from their parents. In the past, the only time that previous administrations separated families is when there was clear evidence that the children were at risk (essentially adults were suspected of trafficking). There are also LAWS that state how long you can hold children. Also the Trump administration was keeping no records of children that were separated and the status of their parents. These were ALL choices that the Trump administration made. This was NOT business as usual on the border.

    Now the Trump administration has had to admit that they have over 3000 children in custody and are NOT going to be able to reunite them with their parents in the time frame MANDATED by a judge. Because they DON’T have good records, they are having to resort to DNA testing for children under the age of 5 to match them up with their parents.

    When are you going to start to hold Trump accountable for the decision that HE made?

    I also find i a bit ironic the dems had full control of congress and didn’t act on this issue. I am convinced “traditional DC” repubs & dems don’t want this fixed. They simply raise too much money from it.

    PLEEEZE. The dems used their majority to address the financial crisis and pass healthcare. It was Republican who torpedoes NUMEROUS immigration reform efforts during the Obama administration. Ultimately, Obama acted with exec action. Trump reversed those.

    This IS NOT a problem of Democrats. They are in no position today to do anything. Republicans, on the other hand, could fix this tomorrow if they chose to. They are the ones who can’t agree. AND they are led by a President who is untrustworthy.

    So please don’t lay this at the feet of the Democrats.

  42. Jeff Beamsley says:

    Jeff, I am merely counter punching your heavily biased posts. You, more then ever, are locked into one way thinking. Mark Laven is a legal scholar and you refuse to even listen to his words. I fear you are living in the NYT, Wash Post, Liberal bubble. (who’s heads appear to be exploding) DO you ever read counter point? It’s why I love reading your stuff, and listen to an read what i can of opposing views.

    I’m not going to respond to anything posted on Facebook, youtube, etc. They are UNRELIABLE sources of news.

    If you want to post something that Mark Levin has written that was published by a reliable news source, I’ll be happy to read it and comment.

    I don’t believe that limiting my choices to ethical news sources that are committed to publishing truthful news is living in a bubble. Both the Wash Post and the NYT post a wide range of opinions on their editorial pages. George Will and David Brooks have recently both published articles encouraging conservatives to vote for Democrats in the next election in order to save democracy. Do you think that point of view would EVER appear on Fox, Brietbart, Newsmax, etc?

    In fact Fox declined to renew the contracts of Will and Ed Rollins the day after Trump’s innauguration. Think that was a coincidence?

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/315480-fox-declines-to-renew-contracts-for-several-contributors

    Laura Ingram called Will “sad and petty” for his comments about voting for Democrats

    http://thehill.com/homenews/media/393783-laura-ingraham-george-will-is-sad-and-petty-for-urging-votes-against-gop

    Newsmax posted a story about Will’s column, but also include several paragraphs about Ingraham’s response and Will’s comment to Bill Mahr that Dems could easily create their own version of Trump.

    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/george-will-republicans-democrats-president-donald-trump/2018/06/23/id/867918/

    So please don’t talk to me about a bubble and then continue to post stuff from unreliable sources.

  43. Jeff Beamsley says:

    I would understand that there is a legal way to enter the USA. I would also know and accept the responsibility that if I tried to come here any way but legally i would be doing so at my own risk. to bring my children with me would be to accept the risk I, and I alone” would be exposing them to. I would be hopeful I could get away with it if that’s what I decided. I don’t understand whats so hard to understand about that. Jeff please remove your bias from logical thoughts and conclusions.

    Those coming here seeking asylum ARE behaving legally. Not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand.

    It is OUR government that is behaving illegally.

    I am not the one who is confused. Your defense of these acts makes you complicit.

  44. Jeff Beamsley says:

    to the question I asked above, its not a silly question. It was an honest one. I never hear the follow-up answered by the left to what happens AFTER we make them all legal. Many think they should just be allowed to keep coming. If so then WE have no control and the board IS OPEN. Many say its a human right to come here…. they simply lawlessness.

    I told you what my solution was. Did you happen to miss that?

    This is not a binary choice between current actions and an OPEN border.

    Using that argument as bogeyman is the reason I criticized you.

    The knee jerk conservative reaction to any discussion of immigration reform is this “open borders” claim. Clearly that isn’t the only choice. Please tell me when was the last time that we had open borders? Were the borders open under Obama? Hardly. He deported more illegal immigrants than any previous president. Clinton? Nope. Carter? Nope. LBJ? Nope. So why suggest that liberals are in favor of open borders? It’s just another lie.

    I’ll post something on this in the near future, but the current concern about the border is based on a deceitful propaganda campaign run by the Trump administration and his Republican supporters.

    NO ONE is advocating for open borders.
    Illegal immigration is at an historic low.
    The MAJORITY of those coming to this country are fleeing the chaos in their own country. They are seeking asylum in our country, WHICH IS THEIR RIGHT GUARANTEED BY OUR CONSTITUTION. We have a constitutional responsibility to give each of them a hearing on their case. There are also legal limits to how we can treat families and children who are part of this asylum process. The current administration is, by their own admission, breaking those laws and denying asylum seekers their rights to a trial.

    We are NOT being invaded, overrun, or any of the other emotional words being used by Trump.
    NUMEROUS unbiased studies indicate that as immigrant populations go up, violent crime goes down. Trump’s claims otherwise have ALL been debunked as lies by credible fact checking organizations.
    Finally, we need workers and more young families to support economic growth.

    Numerous border city mayors have said that there IS NO PROBLEM with illegal immigration in our town.

    The ONLY lawlessness on the border right now is being committed by the Trump administration.

  45. Jeff Beamsley says:

    https://www.infowars.com/dershowitz-anti-trump-woman-threatened-to-stab-me-in-the-heart/

    Post an article from a credible news source reporting this story and we can talk about. Not interested in anything posted by Infowars, so please don’t waste your time posting it.

  46. Jeff Beamsley says:

    MR) You’re kidding again right? Are you that biased? The mainstream media is blasting on the lead stories is the conditions the kids are being kept in… Why wouldn’t there be a response? Jeff come on my friend. The “right wing” media is doing nothing the left didn’t do to support President Obama… You’re losing your sense of perspective. like it or not, and I want you to know I don’t like it, this is what our news media has become, and yes the NYT’s and Wash Post included.

    We are just going to have to agree to disagree here.

    3000 kids being separated from their parents without any plan to reunite them is news.

    It is the job of the free press to hold those in power accountable for their actions.

    When a portion of the media fails to do their job because of politics, that is reason to stop supporting them.

    I have challenged you in the past to point out any instance of political bias in the NEWS reporting that comes out of the NYT, Wash Post, etc. You have failed to produce any.

    So please don’t suggest that this is all politics and that we live in a post-truth post-fact world. You may be living in that world, but not me.

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