americans favor lifting the cap on s.s. to protect it……well duh…how many americans do you think this will actually effect? let me guess. the number who oppose it…so let me rephrase the question….would you favor someone else paying more in taxes to insure that yours is still there? come on Jeff. To those who voted no in the artticule let me rephrase the question again. “Are you in favor of raising your taxes so someone elses s.s. can be gaurenteed while your benifit remains the same? Nice try.

So, it total you want to raise the taxes on the higher wage earners to pay for s.s, to pay for health care, and then to put them back to where they were under bill clinton…..WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You also want them raised in some form for the cap and trade bill… how much do you think these guys can pay?

Your last comment is heart felt and I do appricicate it….its very personal and its not ignored. I will respectful comment due to your circumstances. Creating a gov’t program that has steared so far from its original intent, and thus making it unsustainable, is not in my view the “best of what we can be as a country.” I have no doubts the “good intentions of health care” will lead to a similar conclusion.

You haven’t addressed my statement….The dems heave the votes go get it done. This has NOTHING to do with the republicans. All they can do is say no….the dems don’t need them.

I think this is where its headed. Polosi is now trying to have the vote on the weekend. no 72 hours of the bill posted on the net. in fact major changes are expected just before the vote. the weekend makes sence becaus there will be no major news coverage. skipping out on both hers and Obama pledge for openness makes sence because they won’t ever get it done if the public knows what they want to pass, as they simply do not have the courage of their convictions in the face of questioning. So if in the dark, no questions and they can proceed.

In your most recent post you wondered if Obama would be Linlcon or Roosevelt…or something in the middle…as you know I am still STUNNED by his lack of leadership on this issue. Its a statement issue for him and he PUNTED to polosi and reid. That my good progressive friend is not leadership. You MUST AGREE with this….forget your minucia of detail and look at the big picture, he failed to lead…I don’t care if they get this done or not he simply blew this. PERIOD.

also can you tell me why still the debate about abortion in this bill from the good congressmen from the great state of michigan? a dem I might add. will you retract your LIE comment regrading that?

Here’s one suggestion that appears to have wide popular support.

http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/americans_agree_on_how_to_fix_social_security/

As far as what Social Security has become, it is one of the most effective programs that we have to eliminate poverty in the elderly.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1111

I also happen to have a special needs daughter and appreciate first hand the benefits that social security provides to those who through no fault of their own are unable to provide for themselves.

In my mind this represents the best of what we can be as a country.

The issue wasn’t whether the Democrats could ultimately pass a bill.

The question was why it has taken so long.

If you are unwilling to concede that the town hall disruptions, tea parties, and all of the misrepresentations that have come from Fox News and the Republican Party didn’t materially contribute the time it has taken to get to his point, you are much further gone that I thought.

You accuse me of misquoting Rush and then pick one of Rush’s favorite misrepresentations.

Here’s the link to the town hall meeting where that comment occurred.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo

What President Obama was saying is that our health care system (not the government) should determine what the most effective treatment should be for this person’s 105 year old mother which could be simple medication rather than an expensive and invasive surgery that might not materially improve her quality of life.

You can also see from this clip that Sarah Palin invented the death panels on her own.

If you want to see the details for each of the quotes I provided and why they are lies, just go to politifact.com. They are all there.

As far as federal funding for abortion and excluding illegal aliens, what is going on are fine tuning the enforcement provisions to make sure that the commitments that the Obama administration made are reflected in the bill.

This is just another example of the “alice in wonderland” logic that conservatives have used during this debate. They complain that the bill doesn’t have effective enforcement for areas that they care about and accuse the administration of decieving the public about their intent to keep their promise. Then when the legislators get around to working on those details in the plan, the same group says AHA! we were right. The only reason they are working on these provisions is because we called them out on it, and that proves that they never really wanted to put them in thee.

As far as the Republicans putting up a plan, it will be interesting to see if the plan gets a CBO score. If it does, I suspect it won’t be pretty.

The real question is why now? Why not six months ago when both could have been debated head to head? Did it take the Republicans this long to get the thing written?

As it is, this is the most encouraging development that I’ve seen in the process. What this tells me is that all of the other delaying tactics have failed and the Republicans know that they are going to lose. So their last desparate measure to provide at least a little political cover for them in upcoming elections is to toss out this weak plan that completely ignores the major reform issue on the table – the uninsured.

It will be good to have this behind us.

So this addresses a republican bill…..Maybee

also adds to the fire of imagrinets getting access and abortion being provided. if these are “lies,” as you’ve called them, then what are the dems “addressing?”

Nice try. The dems have the votes and don’t need any republicans. Period end of story. The dems can do this ontheir own. Period end of story. ANy objection a rebulican makes isn’t even a factor. I’ll say it again. Period end of story. The dems can have whatever they want right now. If Your libral leadership wants this they can have it. Just go vote. PERIOD. nice chatter you’ve made above but it is excuse making and irrelivent to the outcome.
So, it appears you missed my point entirely.

As to abortion from above many dems would disagree with you.
Please read the below link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33597521/ns/politics-washington_post

As to sara’s Palins “death Panel” Obama said. “maybee instead of doing whatever possible to save gramma, maybee we just give her a pill” (Paraprashing) and that was a discussion with “concil.” now just what does that mean? this is what she was referring to.

Rush you’ve taken out of context like everyone else. If you’re not going to listen to him then don’t quote him.

The rest i did hear.

Insurance is a low risk low reward vehicle. You purchase it for those circumstances where you can’t afford to finance the loss yourself.

Investments are a higher risk higher reward vehicle. You invest once you have covered those risks with insurance or savings so that you can afford to deal with the risk of loss.

Same goes with retirement.

SS is an insurance policy and the single most effective government program to combat poverty. That’s because it always pays off. There is no risk.

This isn’t about individual behavior, but how we as a society view caring for those who can’t care for themselves because SS not only covers the elderly, but also the disabled.

So we have an insurance plan that always pays rather than an investment plan that may nor may not pay and certainly wouldn’t pay for those who because of disability were never able to work.

What rock have you been living under?

Here, let me refresh your memory just a little.

“Forcing Americans off of their current health coverage and onto a government-run plan isn’t the answer, but that’s exactly what the Democrats’ plan would do.” John Boehner – LIE

“Forty-five percent of doctors “say they’ll quit” if health care reform passes.” Glenn Beck – LIE

“Under the Baucus bill … federal funds would subsidize coverage of elective abortions.” National Right to Life Committee – LIE

“President Obama . . . wants to mandate circumcision.” Rush – LIE

“The health bill’s plan for comparative effectiveness research “would be used by the government to ration care.”" John Boehner – LIE

“I’m 59. In either Canada or Great Britain, if I broke my hip, I couldn’t get it replaced.” Roy Blunt – LIE

A provision in the health care reform bill for end-of-life counseling for seniors is not “entirely voluntary.” Sarah Palin – LIE

“Ezekiel Emanuel, one of President Obama’s key health care advisers, “says medical care should be reserved for the nondisabled. So watch out if you’re disabled.”" Michelle Bachman – LIE

Seniors and the disabled “will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care.” – Sarah Palin – LIE

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Why do you think these folks would lie like this?

It’s because they don’t have an alterative proposal.

So their only tactic is to decieve the voting public, scare seniors, and delay the process long enough to rally sufficient support to defeat it.

If you have some other reason for educated people to LIE, please share it with me.