Russert, Carlin and MonroeTalks
One of the regular users of MonroeTalks, “Kazimer,” challenged me to think about the connection between George Carlin, Tim Russert and MonroeTalks.
Kaz sent a link to a column by Rabbi Aaron Bergman on Detnews.com that made the loose link between Russert and Carlin, noting that they both “spoke truth to power.”
Neither backed down from challenging people in authority - in their own very different ways. Russert, as host of Meet the Press, was unfailingly polite and professional while asking tough questions and insisting on real answers. Carlin took pride in being rude and irreverent, both in his comedy and in his obversations on government, religion and any other institution.
What does all that have to do with MonroeTalks?
Kaz didn’t give his opinion, but I can see the direction he was heading with the question.
As the person primarily responsible for moderating MonroeTalks.com, I take a lot of grief from both sides when there is a controversial post that some think should be deleted.
Of course, I don’t make those decisions in a vacuum. They’re often discussed by several people before a decision is made. And of course, one of the underlying principles that we hold dear at The Evening News is freedom of speech.
When it’s a close call, we’re usually going to err on the side of leaving it. That angers some people, who think we should be more aggressive in the name of decency. Like George Carlin’s comedy, some of the comments on MonroeTalks are pretty raunchy.
When does a person’s right to free speech get trumped by the public’s right to read a community discussion forum without being offended?
That’s not a question with an easy answer. We have “Terms of Service” for MonroeTalks - as well as for the comments that follow stories on monroenews.com - that prohibit profanity, obscenity and personal attacks, among other things. That helps, and we delete any clear violations. The problem is the huge gray area.
Rabbi Bergman ended his column with a plea that perhaps holds part of the answer.
“Politicians and religious leaders around the country are probably breathing a little easier, because Russert and Carlin will not be there anymore,” he wrote.
“It is up to all of us, in our own way, to continue to demand honesty and integrity from all in public life.”
MonroeTalks is a place where everyone can say what they want - in their own way. They can challenge people in authority, speaking their own version of “truth to power.” They also can tell jokes, swap recipes for potato salad, or banter about baseball.
And they can do it all like Russert, with class and respect, or like Carlin, with sharp and vulgar humor.
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Has there ever been a clear violation on Monroe Talks? If talking about blending up babies and eating them with chips is no violation to a family forum, then there are no true violations, in my opinion.
Dan, stop with the so-called thoughtful rhetoric. Just say it, “We have no intention of enforcing the rules we set up for decency and the comfort of civil posters.”
People are free to post the most vulgar criminal like posts, which result in people feeling sick and even crying, as has happened with the dead baby jokes.
You say, “Is that fitting for a family community? I can’t say. Tough call.” Well, go tell dead baby jokes at your next family gathering and see if it’s fitting.
Violation after violation nothing is done or even addressed openly. I feel the decency of a forum is being compromised for numbers. People pleasing at its ugliest.
In marvel and disgust,
Jeremy
July 3rd, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I assume you probably feel the same about PG 13 movies, prime-time television, video games and the like.
We can sit around and lament the loss of values in society - I certainly do once in awhile.
But the nice thing about most media in this world - other than billboards, I suppose - is that they’re optional. We can pick and choose what we want to expose ourselves to.
When I turn the television channel and see a giant spider swallowing a child in a sci-fi flic, I quickly change the channel. Same with the Internet, when I inadvertently get linked to a porn site. You can’t do much surfing without it happening occasionally.
MonroeTalks is a general community site intended to attract the widest audience possible. It’s for everyone in the community over 13. That means wide variance in tastes and sensibilities. We manage it to accommodate that.
People who have narrower tastes probably should stay away from it, just like they should avoid prime-time television, most PG-13 movies and the magazine rack at newsstands. Society’s tolerance for sex, violence and formerly offensive language is changing. We can’t hold it back by putting more restrictive standards on MonroeTalks.
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Thank you for making it clear you have no intention on enforcing any rule of decency, and for letting those who expect decency know that they probably should go elsewhere.
I must have read the rules wrong that state no profanity, lewd sexuality, or harassment.
Why bother making such rules if you’re going to find every reason to say, “It’s no clear violation”?
At least you made it clear. I had hoped you’d enforce the rules or drop them altogether, being they are NOT enforced. A rule unenforced is no rule at all. I see you wish to leave them, but at the same time justify every violation with, “Well, I can’t say it’s a clear cut violation.”
I wouldn’t really even have a problem with the sexuality, profanities, and harassment on this forum if it were not for rules against such things. If there were no rules, I’d expect such things and would feel no need to complain against them. But I expected more from a Family forum with so-called rules of decency.
I can’t say I’ll leave the forum; I’ll just count the rules a joke. If I see a clear violation, I will say nothing, for there are no real rules to be violated.
Again, if talking about putting babies in a blender and eating them with chips is not a violation, then there are no violations.
And don’t waste your time lamenting over the loss of values, for it’s people like you who do nothing that have paved the way for such a loss.
In disgust,
Jeremy
July 6th, 2008 at 1:39 am
Being you have justified morbid jokes made to insult people of faith/religion, saying it is a long standing social issue, I’m just wondering if we can tell Black, Asian, and Jew jokes - racial jokes? Those are nothing compared to dead baby jokes, right?
They can be justified by saying it’s a long standing social issue. Nothing like making the clearly black a little gray, all in the name of free speech, eh?
It would have been nice for you to make it clear when posting “Suggestions for Terms of Service” that you had no intention of enforcing the rules of decency on a “Family forum”, and that you’d justify every clear violation with saying, “It’s too gray to determine.” I have endured much aggression and opposition to have you finally make it clear you are determined to do nothing. Again, it would have been nice to know this before I used my time and energy to fight for decency. I thought you were sincere in your words of concern for decency, but I have yet to see that concern in deed.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
Jeremy:
Just wait awhile. I’m sure the legislature soon will outlaw dead baby jokes … and dumb blond jokes … and fat jokes and thin jokes, maybe all jokes because nowadays almost anything will offend someone. Talk about gray.
What one person finds offensive another doesn’t. I can tell you that I’ve seen far more offensive stuff on MonroeTalks than dead baby jokes, but I wouldn’t expect them to be erased just because I find them offensive. I just consider the source and move on.
BTW, as a matter of fact, until you specifically noted the dead baby thing here, I was unaware that such drivel even had been posted on MonroeTalks. The forum is so vast and multi-layered there are times when I can’t even find my own posts. Maybe I should survey it every day and post all the things I find most offensive. That will serve a wonderful purpose, won’t it?
August 21st, 2008 at 10:38 am
Monroe Talks is alot like one of those old spaghetti westerns. You have the the outlaws (the sicko brigade of MT) who come into town (MT) and cause trouble…Most of the town’s people (MT members) don’t like this, but they stay behind closed doors and do nothing (only expresss displeasure via PM)..while anyone who chooses to oppose the troublemakers is left to fend for themselves (Clint Eastwood character in the old movies).
I’d rather watch the movies..far more entertaining.